Author Topic: Star Wars Episode VII: The Force Awakens - December 16th 2015  (Read 36992 times)

Offline *<JO>*Veniku Dar Adias

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Re: Star Wars Episode VII: The Force Awakens - December 16th 2015
« Reply #75 on: December 31, 2015, 01:52 PM »
books over the movies isn't the exact making of the books... example i perfer the walking dead tv series over the comics..

Star Wars books over the recent movie is due to a few things that just were too over the top...

I can assume anyone reading this has watched the movie by now ( given this is a original clan to a star wars video game series... and hence forth most likely a star wars fan )... *EDIT* Minus one of the two debating in the past posts.*

with that said this could be a spoiler so stop reading....


When rey is locked up and then out of a sudden can wield the force ( mind trick ) a storm trooper and continues to gain "powers" or abilities till the end of the movie... Come on...
poo original movies took luke two movies and according to the time line a couple of years to learn how to pull his light saber to him... let alone mind tricks.. She pulls it off within a few days..?

Kylo holding a laser bolt mid flight... for the duration of his less then sinister speech. then magically releasing it after 5 mins... just a little over the top.

I did however enjoy the humor in the movie.. generally all the new characters. I enjoyed the movie for entertainment value... but still feel the books held more the star wars feel. Its a matter of opinion in which
you need to form your own. With that said too.. why ruin the movie through reviews? you know how many good movies i've watched with less then good reviews and i found were awesome. Games too....

any which way happy new years everyone... theres gonna be a few more star wars titles... never know maybe a few more decent games.
« Last Edit: December 31, 2015, 01:54 PM by *<JO>*Veniku Dar Adias »

Offline *<JO>*Tabaet

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Re: Star Wars Episode VII: The Force Awakens - December 16th 2015
« Reply #76 on: December 31, 2015, 05:28 PM »
I absolutely agree that films with bad reviews can be fun to watch, just as films with great reviews can be a complete bore: it's all a question of personal taste. To be clear: the reason I haven't seen it has nothing to do with my distaste for how they handled the erradication of the EU or any of their questionable design decisions, but rather because, where I live in London, a single cinema ticket costs almost as much as a BlyRay disc. I have no intention of shelling out 15 or 20 pounds for a single person to see a film once when the same amount of money can get me a disc of an equally good film that I can watch repeatedly :P

When I can see it without throwing away a small fortune, I certainly will, and I'll try to enjoy it for its good points, but for me the EU is always going to be the canon continuation of the Star Wars story and the new films/books/games will be the alternative version.
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Offline ChrisGrim

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Re: Star Wars Episode VII: The Force Awakens - December 16th 2015
« Reply #77 on: January 01, 2016, 12:43 AM »


When rey is locked up and then out of a sudden can wield the force ( mind trick ) a storm trooper and continues to gain "powers" or abilities till the end of the movie... Come on...
poo original movies took luke two movies and according to the time line a couple of years to learn how to pull his light saber to him... let alone mind tricks.. She pulls it off within a few days..?

Kylo holding a laser bolt mid flight... for the duration of his less then sinister speech. then magically releasing it after 5 mins... just a little over the top.

any which way happy new years everyone... theres gonna be a few more star wars titles... never know maybe a few more decent games.

Luke used the Force in the first movie to curve rockets down an exhaust port and BLEW UP THE DEATH STAR... Like he was in that Angelina Jolie bullet curving movie!

I mean... I agree, Rey came about all of this really fast, won't deny that... And while I suspect she is the new Chosen ONE,  it was a bit fast. Luke was inconsistent with his level of skill and power in the OT. That is one of the only gripes I have about the OT. Luke seems as weak or as strong as the story needs him to be.

Also, stopping the blaster bolt was incredible. I loved that. I don't think his speech was meant to be sinister there though. Maybe I'm wrong. But I thought that was pretty epic, regardless. And then he let it go because he didn't need to hold it anymore... how long should he have held it? Lol
« Last Edit: January 01, 2016, 02:54 AM by ChrisGrim »

Offline ChrisGrim

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Re: Star Wars Episode VII: The Force Awakens - December 16th 2015
« Reply #78 on: January 01, 2016, 02:07 AM »
Quote
That... actually makes it worse. The fact that the side openings were vents was a prevailing theory, but I was actually hoping it was meant to be a guard instead, because if one of those vents was cut or damaged in any way, the saber would just explode in his hand.

Until I'm on a PC I can't propel respond to this whole post but I do want to talk about this one part.

Your beloved EU had LIGHTSABER WHIPS.... and you're going to give me a hard time about cross guards or vents?  Come on... You know you're stretching here.

Quote
The second Death Star was never completed. They rushed to make the super laser operational, but a huge amount of the infrastructure was incomplete. And yeah, they left it ambiguous because they knew that if they did anything to draw attention to how much effort was actually involved in weaponising a planet, everyone would realise that even with Star Wars level technolgy it simply isn't possible.

So... they built 1.5 Death Stars in less time than the First Order took to build Starkiller base... and? We don't even know how long Starkiller base took to build. Maybe Sidious designed it before his death. Maybe Snoke was building it in secret.

Money and financial backing aren't something Star Wars tends to explain. Because no one cares unless they are TRYING to find something to complain about. How did Sidious pay for the clones both at all (he doesn't run the Senate until well after they are paid for and grown) and how does he move that many credits unnoticed? How does the Trade Federation accumulate enough wealth for an infinite Droid army? What do their books look like? How did the Rebels pay for anything? Especially after Alderaan.. How did Sidious afford two moon sized bases? I mean, surely one is bad enough but wouldn't two bankrupt the Empire? How does Luke pay for the Jedi Enclaves? Or to feed Padawan for that matter. How does Thrawn get financial backing to create a force to rival the New Republic? Does it matter? Of course not, because OT and EU...




« Last Edit: January 01, 2016, 02:51 AM by ChrisGrim »

Offline *<JO>*Tabaet

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Re: Star Wars Episode VII: The Force Awakens - December 16th 2015
« Reply #79 on: January 01, 2016, 06:09 AM »
I never said I love everything about the EU, but just because the EU did something bad that doesn't mean it's OK for the new trilogy to do something else that's bad. But a lightsaber whip is just shaped plasma in exactly the same way as a regular lightsaber, so it's just a new take on the same technology. I'm just questioning Kylo Ren's sanity if he willingly uses a weapon that has a chance to blow up every time he turns it on. Especially if he can pull a Neo and stop blaster bolts in mid-air: that just means he doesn't even need a lightsaber and his only reason for using it is to look badass. A task at which he fails, by the way.

You're right: money has never been explained in Star Wars, and a lot of things really shouldn't have been possible if you look at them purely from a financial point of view, but once again that doesn't mean that it's OK for the new trilogy to do the same thing. But money was only one of my concerns about Starkiller base. Its size completely dwarfs both Death Stars put together, so logically it would take at least as long to build as both of them. I'm assuming it moves, because otherwise it would be a fairly pointless superweapon, which means it would require as much engine power as every ship that existed, both on- and off-screen, during the OT and prequel time periods, and a similar amount of thrust facing forwards so it can stop without ramming into other planets in its path. Also, it seems completely pointless: the reason the Death Stars failed wasn't a question of size. They already had the power to destroy planets with a single shot. The reason they failed was because they both had a completely straight tube leading from the reactor out into space. If the first Death Star's exhaust tube had had even just one kink in it, Luke's torpedoes would have hit the side of the tube and never would have made it to the reactor.
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Offline ChrisGrim

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Re: Star Wars Episode VII: The Force Awakens - December 16th 2015
« Reply #80 on: January 01, 2016, 10:59 PM »
I never said I love everything about the EU, but just because the EU did something bad that doesn't mean it's OK for the new trilogy to do something else that's bad. But a lightsaber whip is just shaped plasma in exactly the same way as a regular lightsaber, so it's just a new take on the same technology. I'm just questioning Kylo Ren's sanity if he willingly uses a weapon that has a chance to blow up every time he turns it on. Especially if he can pull a Neo and stop blaster bolts in mid-air: that just means he doesn't even need a lightsaber and his only reason for using it is to look badass. A task at which he fails, by the way.

You're right: money has never been explained in Star Wars, and a lot of things really shouldn't have been possible if you look at them purely from a financial point of view, but once again that doesn't mean that it's OK for the new trilogy to do the same thing. But money was only one of my concerns about Starkiller base. Its size completely dwarfs both Death Stars put together, so logically it would take at least as long to build as both of them. I'm assuming it moves, because otherwise it would be a fairly pointless superweapon, which means it would require as much engine power as every ship that existed, both on- and off-screen, during the OT and prequel time periods, and a similar amount of thrust facing forwards so it can stop without ramming into other planets in its path. Also, it seems completely pointless: the reason the Death Stars failed wasn't a question of size. They already had the power to destroy planets with a single shot. The reason they failed was because they both had a completely straight tube leading from the reactor out into space. If the first Death Star's exhaust tube had had even just one kink in it, Luke's torpedoes would have hit the side of the tube and never would have made it to the reactor.

He stopped A blaster bolt. Which was awesome. Now, question his sanity (I think the saber is meant to mirror his personality) but you've jumped headlong into closed mindedness when you decide he carries a saber at all is because he wants to look cool.

So far you've said you are keeping an open mind but have pre-determined how you feel about the story, the characters, and their motives.

You've basically decided not to like it on principal because it isn't the EU you want. That's not an open mind...

Now...Why do Jedi carry a lightsaber? Why do Sith?  That's why he does as well. Having abilities outside of using a saber is now a bad thing?

From what I've read no one else in the Knights of Ren carry a blade. He is the only one. And that is as close to a spoiler as I'm willing to get to.

If you are going to give the OT and EU a pass and then fault the new movie for that same thing than this can't be a real conversation. As I've said, you've made a decision not to like something and seem to refuse to give it the same allowances you'll give the other stories.

But finally, I don't think Starkiller base moves........ and there is a reason for it and I can't say it cause spoilers but I'm sure you'll hate it one way or another regardless.

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Re: Star Wars Episode VII: The Force Awakens - December 16th 2015
« Reply #81 on: January 02, 2016, 02:30 AM »
But finally, I don't think Starkiller base moves........ and there is a reason for it and I can't say it cause spoilers but I'm sure you'll hate it one way or another regardless.
Spoilers in black.

The base consumes an entire star while reloading, so it has to move to the next star for another reload. Don't know how though.
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Offline *<JO>*Tabaet

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Re: Star Wars Episode VII: The Force Awakens - December 16th 2015
« Reply #82 on: January 02, 2016, 06:39 AM »
Now...Why do Jedi carry a lightsaber? Why do Sith?  That's why he does as well. Having abilities outside of using a saber is now a bad thing?

Jedi carry a lightsaber as a symbol of authority. Sith carry one to fight Jedi. In a world where the Jedi Order was never reborn, he really has no reason to carry one until he learns where Luke's hiding, especially with a broken crystal. Why not just get a new one? As for having powers beyond his saber, of course that's not bad. Vader drew his lightsaber exactly 3 times throughout the OT: to kill Obi Wan, to cut off Luke's hand and for the final duel against Luke. Other than that, he just used the Force, which is part of what made him such an effective villain. But if Vader's lightsaber had been broken, he wouldn't have kept the damaged crystal and made a new hilt with a couple of easily exploitable weaknesses.

My comments have all been based on logic rather than opinion. The EU and OT really have no place in this dicussion, and yet you constantly refer to them to justify flaws in the new trilogy.

I feel that the discussion's about to start looping back on itself, so we should probably stop before it gets boring, but finally, can you honestly say that you wouldn't want a feature length film like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nzq9epS2b1A ? :P
That's what we could have had if they hadn't been desperate to bring back the old actors.
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Offline *<JO>*RaegnaMari

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Re: Star Wars Episode VII: The Force Awakens - December 16th 2015
« Reply #83 on: January 02, 2016, 08:18 AM »
I find it funny how finances are being discussed. That was actually covered at some point in the lore. The Republic managed to fund all the clones and new ships by borrowing a lot of money. So once they won, they would have had a lot of debt to deal with. But then the Empire happened, and they deal with it a little bit differently. I doubt Sidious had to pay a single spacepenny for the 2 Death Stars. They would have exploited worlds and used slave labour.
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Re: Star Wars Episode VII: The Force Awakens - December 16th 2015
« Reply #84 on: January 02, 2016, 01:48 PM »
In a world where the Jedi Order was never reborn, he really has no reason to carry one until he learns where Luke's hiding, especially with a broken crystal.

Kylo admires Vader. Since Vader had a saber, Kylo must have a saber. He is adamant to be as strong as Vader, for me it makes sense he has tuned his saber trying to achieve this. In addition, the Jedi Order was reborn, but destroyed. Kylo was the one to destroy it, so he would need a saber - or have one already.

I feel that the discussion's about to start looping back on itself, so we should probably stop before it gets boring, but finally, can you honestly say that you wouldn't want a feature length film like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nzq9epS2b1A ? :P
That's what we could have had if they hadn't been desperate to bring back the old actors.
If I had to name a single best aspect of Episode 7, that would be Harrison Ford. Even if a digital character would be voiced by him, that would never be the same.
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Offline *<JO>*Tabaet

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Re: Star Wars Episode VII: The Force Awakens - December 16th 2015
« Reply #85 on: January 02, 2016, 05:28 PM »
Kylo admires Vader. Since Vader had a saber, Kylo must have a saber. He is adamant to be as strong as Vader, for me it makes sense he has tuned his saber trying to achieve this. In addition, the Jedi Order was reborn, but destroyed. Kylo was the one to destroy it, so he would need a saber - or have one already.

OK, fair point. So it makes sense that he at least owns a saber, and possibly even that he carries it with him everywhere. And if he's meant to be mentally unstable, it might even make sense that he'd use a volatile lightsaber rather than simply making a new one that works properly. But if he's capable of stopping a blaster bolt in midair, it seems to me that he's already more powerful than Vader, because that's something Vader could never do :P  Also, this raises another question: if Kylo destroyed the reborn Jedi Order, which presumeably included several at least moderately-trained Jedi, if not full Masters, how did he not completely annihilate Rey, a girl with next to no formal training in the Force, during their first encounter? Are we really meant to accept that she's so incredibly gifted that she's more powerful than dozens of Jedi working together? Of course, this is probably getting a bit too far into detailed story content, which I can't really discuss without watching the film :P

If I had to name a single best aspect of Episode 7, that would be Harrison Ford. Even if a digital character would be voiced by him, that would never be the same.

Well, you'll have to do without him for the rest of the trilogy. But I was referring to the story content more than the (extremely) high quality CGI work :P
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Offline ChrisGrim

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Re: Star Wars Episode VII: The Force Awakens - December 16th 2015
« Reply #86 on: January 02, 2016, 10:16 PM »
But finally, I don't think Starkiller base moves........ and there is a reason for it and I can't say it cause spoilers but I'm sure you'll hate it one way or another regardless.
Spoilers in black.


You are likely correct. I hadn't really thought of that all the way through. So, yeah, makes sense it would have to move a bit.

Offline ChrisGrim

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Re: Star Wars Episode VII: The Force Awakens - December 16th 2015
« Reply #87 on: January 02, 2016, 10:18 PM »
In a world where the Jedi Order was never reborn, he really has no reason to carry one until he learns where Luke's hiding, especially with a broken crystal.

Kylo admires Vader. Since Vader had a saber, Kylo must have a saber. He is adamant to be as strong as Vader, for me it makes sense he has tuned his saber trying to achieve this. In addition, the Jedi Order was reborn, but destroyed. Kylo was the one to destroy it, so he would need a saber - or have one already.

I feel that the discussion's about to start looping back on itself, so we should probably stop before it gets boring, but finally, can you honestly say that you wouldn't want a feature length film like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nzq9epS2b1A ? :P
That's what we could have had if they hadn't been desperate to bring back the old actors.
If I had to name a single best aspect of Episode 7, that would be Harrison Ford. Even if a digital character would be voiced by him, that would never be the same.

I wasn't going to say all this cause spoilers... but yeah..  Sorry anyone who hasn't seen it yet...

Offline ChrisGrim

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Re: Star Wars Episode VII: The Force Awakens - December 16th 2015
« Reply #88 on: January 02, 2016, 10:28 PM »
Now...Why do Jedi carry a lightsaber? Why do Sith?  That's why he does as well. Having abilities outside of using a saber is now a bad thing?

Jedi carry a lightsaber as a symbol of authority. Sith carry one to fight Jedi. In a world where the Jedi Order was never reborn, he really has no reason to carry one until he learns where Luke's hiding, especially with a broken crystal. Why not just get a new one? As for having powers beyond his saber, of course that's not bad. Vader drew his lightsaber exactly 3 times throughout the OT: to kill Obi Wan, to cut off Luke's hand and for the final duel against Luke. Other than that, he just used the Force, which is part of what made him such an effective villain. But if Vader's lightsaber had been broken, he wouldn't have kept the damaged crystal and made a new hilt with a couple of easily exploitable weaknesses.

My comments have all been based on logic rather than opinion. The EU and OT really have no place in this dicussion, and yet you constantly refer to them to justify flaws in the new trilogy.

I feel that the discussion's about to start looping back on itself, so we should probably stop before it gets boring, but finally, can you honestly say that you wouldn't want a feature length film like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nzq9epS2b1A ? :P
That's what we could have had if they hadn't been desperate to bring back the old actors.

The EU definitely has a place here because the debate started with rhe complaint that the EU was tossed out to make the film. Then the debate about whether the EU was even good, or whether it needed to be erased. And now nitpicking parts of the movie you haven't even seen that do similar things you don't nitpick in the EU and OT, which is a double standard. Your point may have logic but if you complain about it in TFA but let it go in the OT and EU then you have no leg to stand on.

From what I gather, you didn't want them to use, throw out, alter, or ignore the EU. And you've decided not to like TFA because it isn't the EU, but also because some of it borrows from it..

You've basically resolved to not like the something but claim to have an open mind...

Offline ChrisGrim

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Re: Star Wars Episode VII: The Force Awakens - December 16th 2015
« Reply #89 on: January 02, 2016, 10:34 PM »
Kylo admires Vader. Since Vader had a saber, Kylo must have a saber. He is adamant to be as strong as Vader, for me it makes sense he has tuned his saber trying to achieve this. In addition, the Jedi Order was reborn, but destroyed. Kylo was the one to destroy it, so he would need a saber - or have one already.

OK, fair point. So it makes sense that he at least owns a saber, and possibly even that he carries it with him everywhere. And if he's meant to be mentally unstable, it might even make sense that he'd use a volatile lightsaber rather than simply making a new one that works properly. But if he's capable of stopping a blaster bolt in midair, it seems to me that he's already more powerful than Vader, because that's something Vader could never do :P  Also, this raises another question: if Kylo destroyed the reborn Jedi Order, which presumeably included several at least moderately-trained Jedi, if not full Masters, how did he not completely annihilate Rey, a girl with next to no formal training in the Force, during their first encounter? Are we really meant to accept that she's so incredibly gifted that she's more powerful than dozens of Jedi working together? Of course, this is probably getting a bit too far into detailed story content, which I can't really discuss without watching the film :P

If I had to name a single best aspect of Episode 7, that would be Harrison Ford. Even if a digital character would be voiced by him, that would never be the same.

Well, you'll have to do without him for the rest of the trilogy. But I was referring to the story content more than the (extremely) high quality CGI work :P

There is an answer to this, but I'm not 100% you want to know cause it spoils the whole movie...so... torrent it or something lol. There is an answer,  but you have to buy in a little and it takes some explaining... but again... spoilers... So tread carefully. I mean it... I'm in full spoiler mode here.

REY: It is shown earlier in the movie that she is quite adept at hand to hand fighting,  primarily with a staff. She's athletic and a very resourceful person. This coming from some 10+ years alone on Jakku. I mean, you learn to fight for food, your life, etc. And even with that, she is clearly over-matched for much of the final fight. She is basically running much of it. It is also suggested she draws from the Dark Side to overcome him using her pain and anger and sheer force of will...

KYLO: by this point he is an emotional wreck and pretty badly injured. The screenplay notes that “Kylo Ren is somehow WEAKENED by this wicked act,” noting that he is “horrified” and his “SHOCK is broken only when” someone cries out in agony. Even still, he dominates the early portion of the fight until a combination of his injury and rey tapping into the Dark Side overpower him.

As for Kylo killing the NJO, he does it in the dead of night, sneakily, with the entire Knights of Ren at his back. So, again, he's neither fully trained nor in control.


Spoilers over... I hope no one who didn't want to read that accidently does.

Also 4 replies in a row. I'm on fire!
« Last Edit: January 02, 2016, 11:07 PM by ChrisGrim »